Tony,
Looked up some Sanchin on You Tube. There are so many variations out there. Some are slow and dynamic with emphasis on hip and ab preparation while others are quick with hardly and prerequisite hip/ab setups. All are correct.
Higaonna Sensei's Sanchin (emphasis on hip and abs set up)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kybxNOlnl20
Gushi Sensei's Sanchin (note the lack of hip and ab setups)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7YDkZrJ-V0
Ogawa Sensei's Sanchin (interesting posture)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpLkMI1zEo8
A different version of Gushi Sensei's Sanchin (note the setting of shoulder muscles in the begining)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oz9_hL5mmWI
Goju Kai Sanchin by Yamaguchi Sensei
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpEVNUIkVx8
and finally Kyokushin Sanchin (emphasis on ibuki)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKbTp42z5yA
Enjoy all the variations! (^^)
Bonus video! The ultimate way to test your sanchin !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tc3ARNKXEDI
Need to practice some, before the next questions....I did find this link from the Budosai.....http://www.cyberbudo.com/budosai/2007_video.php. Found it very interesting. I really enjoy seeing the three styles side by side. We did look at this before, I had lost the link, due to my last laptop change, thanks for the reminder....
ReplyDeleteThe sanchin done by Higaonna, Sensei is called "Miyagi sanchin"? In this version there is no turns? Was wondering how Kyokushin, then returned back to the older version of sanchin, but kept the closed hand of Goju??
In Gushi old style sanchin, I wanted to say, why so fast...I tried just blasting though, mind looks like crap....just leaned might want to try some days...going faster...Just dont understand why you would want to speed up the kata like that...
ReplyDeleteJust returned from the gym. Unfortunately there are no young ladies (- -;)the average age of the membership must be around the 50's. Kind of interesting seeing little 'ol ladies strutting around the weights just like regular weight lifters!
ReplyDeleteI'm going to be a Devil's advocate and throw this at you. (^^) What practical use is Sanchin in its low and rooted form? We definitely are not going to stand and take a beating in an confrontation. Then it would make sense to do Sanchin at a fast speed, to be able to harness the tanden, ki and waza instantly to deal with a threat. This is the dilema. Practicing the slow and dynamic Sanchin is fine and it definitely has its merits, but.....do we actually apply that in kumite or SDF?
Oh...oh. Squall is hitting again. Better prepare for some blackouts. I can hear sirens all over town right now.
More laters!
So, I think I am getting this...Miyagi sanchin has no turns....Yamaguchi sanchin is much more like the sanchi, we as kyokushin practice...Now I understand that Yamaguchi was a student of Miyagi, Sensei...so are the turns of sanchin new from Yamaguchi...or do we call them old...due to the presents in white crane gonfu??
ReplyDeleteBe safe Roushiichi more karate after the squals are over...
ReplyDeleteFufu, I am told that the only reason there are no turns in the Miyagi version was that it was considered rude to turn your back on tyhe instructor. Hmmm. To believe or not.. (^^)
ReplyDeleteI am not certain where or when the turns came in.All I know is that when I first started Goju in Okinawa, the turns were there (circa 1970) The Senseis never made a big issue over it.
Just concentrate on the basics! Rooted feet, centering on the tanden, and contolled breathing.
What I like to do is do the breathing relaxed and soft as well as hard and dynamic. You will be surprised at the lack of any major difference in the ability to absord punishment.
Albeight as long as you have the core basics down pat. Have fun.
Working on that baseball bat to the leg...smile...(^^). Thanks for the training tonight!! Osu!!...little practice in the morning...bed is calling...Oyasumni Roushiichi
ReplyDelete(^^) Fufu. You know what? Breathing methods such as Sanchin was with us even before we started martial arts! Duh...I can recall being told something to the effect, "Breathe slow and easy" when I had a mishap like tripping and getting the wind knocked out.
ReplyDeleteThe same thing is taught on the firing range and the instructor wasn't martial artist.
Nor was the Red Cross intsructor for the Basic First Aid/First Responder courses.
You cannot do Shodo (calligraphy) 書道, Ikebana (Flower arrangement) 生花 without breath control.
Or any other acitivity.
These folks don't breathe to make their bodies tough but the principles are the same (I think).
Sometimes we can get too "focused" and not see the simple things. We make things complicated.
That is perhaps why the Senseis always said, "Don't think, just do it". Hmmmmmm.
Oops, 2 nd load of laundrym then off to the bank, then.......a greasy burger????(^^)
So very true Shodo, Ikebana, Chado, and even tonight pushing my shopping kart to the 4 Runner in the snow. I was thinking Roushiichi moving sanchin. I think I got the idea, and might sound funny, the cold air, smelled and made me feel better. Might me the placebo effect, but did feel better doing it. I also practice some at home, and you know I am getting so lost now in the breathing, that I lose myself I the kata, extra punches for getting to turn….just like a newbie again (shoshin)…still have on my mind….is there Oyo for Sanchi…might be it was destinated to body development and control of Ki. Which to be honest, I am still working on understanding, maybe waves of energy or ions moving though our nervous system. Is that my good feeling as I pushed my kart this evening though the parking lot?? I know some question you can’t answer for me Roushiichi. Some don’t have answers, and others, I need to find for myself. Read tonight, that kata in some circles(Master Wu Bin,Gongfu) is also thought to heal (page 187 of the Bubishi, McCarthy, Sensei).
ReplyDeleteSanchin then is done for the following to answer your question:
1. It teaches us the correct mode of breathing, incorrect breath wastes vital energy because we are not bring maximal oxygen to our muscles and thus not making the most ATP…a “biologist Ki”. We learn to relate tempo of the technique and body movement to breathe.
2. It teaches us to be rooted with correct with the correct release of muscle tension. The technique flows from the release of muscle tension. This will allow for explosive movement. We don’t fight in Sanchin per say but we learn that teasion is held in the body, that we relax that tension down several notches to produce the “bull whip” that Sosai spoke to so often.
3. It teaches us the Kimae needed. I am learning the Spirt of the Osu, rests in this kata, along with the Kamae. Protecting our center of our body, and distrupting the balance of the center of our opponent.
Ok now time for my salad ......get one with that greasy burger too...keep the blood vessels clean....smile...
..My turn for the type-o's tonight....2. "It teaches us to be rooted with correct posture, thus with the correct release of muscle tension causes the waza. The technique flows from the release of muscle tension.
ReplyDeleteGaads! Tony! You have my brain working overtime!
ReplyDeleteGahahaha! Back to the KISS principle. Eschew obfuscation! (^^)
Proper breathing brings proper posture. Proper posture allows us to move in an efficient manner.
If we are efficient in our movements then we are getting the maximum results from minimum effort.
This leads to happiness! (^^)
UMMM see what happens when I have a week off to think...very true...should keep it KISS.Your comment is better said..I would get the "eschew obfuscation" comment from my profs in college also...should of saw my grad papers...point well taken. Ok, might get some extra sleep... Suzi and I now done our duty outside, and I hope that she will give back my pillow without a fight...she is tuff for 6.5lbs....
ReplyDelete(^^) The purpose of grad papers is to confuse the profs so much that they think you have all th answers! The only real answer for us is to feel what happens to ourselves physically and mentally. As you wrote earlier, whether it happens when you do a maegeri or just pushing the lawnlower (not the engine assisted kind!), you will feel it when all gets together. The ned result being a good feeling and joy!
ReplyDeleteThe breathing, timing, application of waza or the physical effort comes as one. I've had that feeling(too few to mention) in both Judo and Karate. you know the occasions when people say "it looks effortless". You don't calculate the timing or set-ups, the body just flows in synch with your opponent, you breathing matches your movement and is in control. The priceless look of surprise on your partner's face! (^^) after being thrown.
In karate as well, that one punch or kick that just gets in there without being forced. That footsweep that sweeps your partner falt onto his back without effort. I was once asked at Take's Dojo how I set up a sweep. My answer was I really didn't "set it up", it just happens.
So perhaps the key to Kata lies therein. Through Kata we polish up our breathing, timing and movements. In kumite we apply this training so that it is "natural". A very long road (**;)
The methodology may differ but all those reality, alive and non traditional "poopah kata:
proponents practice Kata as well. Anytime you teach skills, you end up teaching Kata. It may be only one step or a roll on the mat, but you are teaching a "form" for particular application. I say that is Kata. You repeat the same moves over and over again whether you call it "passing the guard" or "irimi", it is done with the same principle of "practice, practice and more practice 「一に稽古、二に稽古、三を飛んで、稽古、稽古、稽古！」
「慮りすでに定まれば進退疑いなし」平山子竜
Ahhh, the Hawaiian sunshine is out in force today! Me thinks a nice walk will do the soul wonders as well as rehabilitate my vision! (^^)
I like that though kata we polish our breathing, which leads to mind and body movements with no thought which is ground work for good kumite.
ReplyDeleteNihongo Keiko:“Ichi ni keiko, Ni ni keiko, San o toned, keiko, keiko, keiko”! “Omonbakarri sude ni sa da mareba shintai utagai shisa utagai nashi”, Hirayama go ryu.
One practice , two practice, three flying(^^), practice, practice, practice! “Contemplation all ready has been done, if you suspect (suspicious) without doubt Movement.” Hirayama ( historical figure, name is meaning “dragon of the mountain”.) Sound like a warrior giving lesson on fighting...but not sure....
san...might be "jump up" an practice practice practice....Better??
ReplyDeleteGetting close her Roushiichi...Akemashite omendato!!
Not quite "AkeOme", As my daughter likes to say.
ReplyDelete(^^) The fire crackers and "illegal Boomers" are gradually picking up pace here in Hawaii.
Yuta is also picking up his pace at barking!
What a concert! I am glad it is only twice a year. But as of 2011, no more. I didn't realize fireworks have been banned in China and Singapore for a long while. Almost 40 some years for Singapore.
Good effort on the translations! Fufu. Not bad at all. Yup literally "skip three" and practice , practice , practice! AKA as "Shut up and practice!!!" Gahahaha
As for the quote. It is by Hirayama Koryu, author of 「剣徴」KENCHOU(Ken=sword/chou=to judge)
[Omonbakari sude ni sadamareba shintai utagainashi] The meaning can be interpreted as "If you have made your decesion then you no longer fear your enemy and courage will come forth naturally and any hestitation is lost, thus enable you make the right decesion.” In this case 退 tai does not mean merely to retrest, it means to withdraw after defeating the enemy.
This may also refer to the zanshin when completing a Kata. More laters!
Happy New Year! Must be close to countdown in NY!